Transcript: Drs. Brook and Ghate on ObjectivismOnline.Net
The following online public
chat took place on April 23, 2004 at 5:30 PM (PST). Dr. Yaron
Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute (ARI), and Dr.
Onkar Ghate, a senior fellow at ARI, appeared as guests of
ObjectivismOnline.Net at the #AynRand IRC channel. Their purpose
was to meet students and others, and answer questions about
Objectivism, ARI and the Objectivist Academic Center (OAC). ARI
does not oversee or endorse the content of and is not affiliated in
any way with ObjectivismOnline.Net or #AynRand.
NOTE: The editor, in preparing this transcript
from the original chat log, has corrected some minor errors in
grammar and spelling, as well as a few imprecise statements.
Corrections were kept to a minimum. Some content was moved from its
original place in the log. This was done only when questions or
comments came out of sequence, as often happens during online
chats. The editor has also inserted a few bracketed comments to
assist the reader in comprehending the dialogue. The only deletions
from the original log were irrelevant administrative notices. To
the editor's knowledge, this transcript is a complete and accurate
record of everything conveyed during the chat session.
<Bearster> Hi, I am Bearster, AKA Keith.
My fellow Objectivists and most welcome guests: I'd like to thank
everyone for being here this evening, and particularly the Ayn Rand
Institute and its Executive Director Dr. Yaron Brook along with Dr.
Onkar Ghate, an ARI Senior Fellow. I am now going to turn over the
floor to my co-moderator for this session David, AKA GreedyCap.
<GreedyCap> Hello everyone! Thanks for
joining tonight's chat. The purpose of this chat is to meet
students interested in Objectivism, the Ayn Rand Institute, or the
Objectivist Academic Center, and to answer your questions. Dr.
Yaron Brook and Dr. Onkar Ghate will be here for an hour to answer
your questions. I would like to thank them for joining us
tonight.
This chat is sponsored by the ObjectivismOnline.NET
website in association with the #AynRand IRC channel. The chat will
be moderated by Bearster (Keith) and me (David).
To participate in the discussion, please send me or
Bearster a private message. We will give you voice privileges to
ask your question. It looks like we have a great turnout, so
please be patient, as it may take some time to get to your
question. If you are using the online applet, just double click on
our names. If you are using an IRC client, you can type "/msg
GreedyCap" or "/msg Bearster" to send either of us a private
message. Please do not message either Dr. Brook or Dr. Ghate
directly, as Bearster and I will be the only ones doing moderation.
We will remove speaking privileges after your question, so message
us again if you want to ask another question. After the
Q&A is over, we will open the chat room to open discussion and
any questions we didn't have time to get to.
And now a disclaimer: Drs. Brook and Ghate do not
necessarily endorse the content of www.objectivismonline.net or of
#AynRand, and their appearance as guests during this public chat
should not be construed as such.
And now I'd like to welcome Dr. Yaron Brook and Dr.
Onkar Ghate of the Ayn Rand Institute.
<Dr_Brook> Hi, everyone. Thanks for
coming tonight. I look forward to your questions.
<Dr_Ghate> Hi, everyone. I am pleased to
be here tonight. I also look forward to your questions.
<Dr_Brook> Okay, let's have the first
question.
<Bearster> I'd like to ask the first
question. How do you measure the progress that Objectivism
has made in the culture, since the inception of ARI?
<Dr_Brook> If the question is how, then
we measure it by the number of people reading Ayn Rand's books, the
number of people in venues available for us to expose Ayn Rand's
ideas, and the number and quality of academics teaching and writing
on Ayn Rand.
<Bearster> And also how much progress
has been made?
<Dr_Brook> On all these fronts there has
been substantial progress over the last twenty years. More Ayn Rand
books are being read today than at any other point in history. ARI
op-eds are being published at an increasing rate. Our speakers are
interviewed on TV and radio more frequently. Ayn Rand's name and
ideas are mentioned in the popular press and general media probably
more than ever before. So, the exposure to her ideas is much
greater today than it was twenty years ago. And, of course, on the
academic front we have significantly more professors teaching Ayn
Rand, more students studying Ayn Rand, and, for the first time,
explicitly Objectivist programs at major universities.
Let's have another question.
<Ent1> Does the ARI see any value in
projects like the Free State Project?
<Dr_Brook> I am not aware of the free
state projects, and I cannot comment on it. I would like the
questions, particularly at the onset, to be focused on ARI's
academic programs and the Objectivist Academic Center.
<Dr_Ghate> Let's have some questions on
OAC, if there are some.
<SteveG> Dr. Brook, Dr. Ghate, thank you
so much for being here. Have there been any efforts to get the OAC
program accredited with any major university? Is there a
possibility of this in the future? Thank you.
<Dr_Brook> Efforts have been made to try
and get OAC classes accredited. These efforts have not been
successful to date. However, we are certainly not giving up. And if
anything, we are re-intensifying our efforts to get these courses
accredited. We do not expect that in the short term this will be
with a major university. But I would not rule that out in the
longer term.
<Dr_Ghate> Some of our students, who
have taken the initiative to ask their department if they can get
credit, have been successful, even at some major universities.
<GreedyCap> DanG? Go ahead.
<Bearster> Ok, I will post for him to
keep this moving forward.
<Bearster> DanG: "Question for Dr.
Ghate: Where do you see OAC going and [what do you see it]
doing in the future? Will it eventually teach all levels of
students, or will it remain a college level institution?"
<Dr_Ghate> It will remain a college
level institution, but that includes graduate and undergraduate
students. And within the next two years, the systematic graduate
program will be unveiled. So that will be the next step after the
undergraduate program. At both the undergraduate and graduate
levels, we plan to offer courses other than philosophy, but still
broadly in the humanities, such as history.
Though the courses are undergraduate and graduate
level, that doesn't mean all our students are in universities. We
have students who are working, still in high school, between
careers, etc.
<DanG> Will there be an option to view
pre-recorded lectures as opposed to teleconferencing? [There was no
response to this question.]
<Zirjin> Will the OAC be targeted
towards international students as well as the US, and how will time
zones apply? (I am Aussie.)
<Dr_Ghate> We already have students from
around the world, including Australia, Hong Kong, Israel, and
various European countries. For people whose time zone makes it
difficult to attend live, they listen to class recordings over the
Internet. They submit assignments and get grades just like any
other student.
<BradW> What is ARI/OAC doing to reach
young adults who seem to be more tuned into Internet technologies
than books? For example, have you considered a current events web
log, discussing from an Objectivist viewpoint?
<Dr_Brook> The Institute has an
extensive Web site with well over 1000 pages of content. In the
coming months, our Web site will be significantly revised to better
enhance the navigation and use. We are always looking for new
opportunities to use the Internet and technology to get our message
to a growing number of people. However, it will always be the case
that to learn about Objectivism one will need to read Ayn Rand's
works.
<Dr_Ghate> Let me address current events
web log. We publish through the media department numerous op-eds
that can be accessed on our Web site. A daily web log wouldn't
allow us the kind of editing and philosophical precision necessary
to spread Objectivism.
<GreedyCap> Lyceum, go ahead.
<Lyceum> How many students (OAC) are
enrolled at the moment?
<Dr_Brook> There are between 50 and 60
students in the undergraduate program.
<egochick> What is taken into account
when considering an applicant to the OAC?
<Dr_Ghate> His general knowledge and
interest in Objectivism, his career plans, and his general level of
intelligence. The application process consists of describing your
current schooling, career plans, intellectual interests and
interest in the OAC. And then there is an entrance exam, which
tests the [applicant's] basic familiarity with Objectivism and
presupposes that one has read
The Fountainhead,
Atlas
Shrugged,
The Virtue of Selfishness, and
Capitalism:
The Unknown Ideal. The details of the application process are
on our Web site, and the deadline this year for applications is
April 26th. If you're worried whether you'll be accepted or not, we
accept a broad range of candidates, so I encourage you to
apply.
<Ramare> Does ARI ever offer financial
assistance to participants of OAC who are not otherwise college
students-particularly those pursuing high-profile intellectual
careers (e.g. writer)?
<Dr_Brook> Yes, the Institute offers
full tuition waivers and, in some cases, scholarships that cover
telephone costs to eligible OAC students. I reiterate that they do
not have to be college students. However, most are. We view the
primary audience for the OAC as potential future "New
Intellectuals"-in other words, future [Objectivist] writers and
teachers, [and more] broadly, [Objectivist] intellectual
activists.
<Ent1> I have another question, and that
is to do with the ARI. Is there any intent to make it less US
centered, i.e., with links to organizations in other countries,
setting up small sub-branches, etc.? Are finances also an issue, or
is control more of a factor?
<Dr_Brook> In the foreseeable future, we
do not expect to branch out beyond North America. The difficulty in
monitoring organizations from a distance is prohibitive. Given the
importance of the purity of the philosophical message, any
association we have with any organization anywhere would have to
enable us to control the message that organization conveys to the
public, and that would be very difficult-in the United States,
nevermind overseas.
In addition, both financial and human resources
available to the Institute are limited, and we must choose our
battles and where to fight them. We believe that the United States
is our best chance at a cultural renaissance, and that is why we
are dedicating all our resources to it at this time.
<Dr_Ghate> That being said, we do reach
an international audience. We have students from around the world,
our Web site is accessible to anyone in the world, our op-eds and
editorials are published in newspapers around the world.
<GreedyCap> Organichu, go ahead.
<Organichu> The message I submitted may
be too long; allow me to cut it in half, please.
Would it be fair to say that only those with an
extremely competent grasp of Objectivist theory and application
will be considered for admission? This is not to say that I would
consider not applying out of some irrational fear. I'm merely
curious about the necessity of actual Objectivist intellectual
qualification versus range of interests and career wishes, etc.
Basically, would you place the level of competence necessary for
admission as greater than that of the average "aspiring
Objectivist"?
<Dr_Ghate> No. If anything it will be
less than that. We're looking for people who have heard of
Objectivism, and are interested in the philosophy, and as evidence
of that, we make sure that they've read some Objectivist material.
But the whole purpose of the undergraduate program is to give
people who have become interested in the philosophy a structured
education in its basic principles and their application.
<Organichu> Thank you.
<Bearster> After this, I'd like to
encourage anyone to ask questions about Objectivism also.
I'd like to ask a follow-up to my first question. Can
you give a few specific numbers of students or professorships or
book sales or essay contestants?
<Dr_Brook> Let's start with essay
contests. This year, for the second time, we will have received
14,000 essays from high school students competing in our essay
contests. This probably makes ours the largest essay contest in the
country. In addition, this year we shipped over 50,000 copies of
The Fountainhead and
Anthem to high school teachers
committed to teaching these books in their classrooms. Imagine a
day when we are shipping 500,000 copies a year to such teachers,
thus ensuring that millions of college freshmen are exposed to Ayn
Rand's ideas in high school. That day is coming.
The 50,000 books were sent to over 1,000 teachers.
Book sales of Ayn Rand exceded 500,000 copies for the second year
in 2003. Five years ago there was no formal program at a university
in which Objectivism was taught. Today we have such programs at the
University of Texas, University of Pittsburgh, and at Ashland
University.
In addition, there are programs in which Ayn Rand is
significantly featured and taught by Objectivists at Duke
University, and next year, at the University of North Carolina,
Chapel Hill. Add to that, starting this fall, the business schools
at the Universities of Kentucky and South Carolina will be handing
out copies of
Atlas Shrugged to all incoming undergraduate
and graduate business students.
<Bearster> Don't be shy, surely there
are questions about Objectivism in a group this size! "/msg" right
up!
<GreedyCap> I have a three-part
question. I have heard that interest in Objectivism is
growing rapidly in India. Can you confirm this? What
kind of effort is being made to promote Objectivism in other
nations? Specifically, what progress is being made to
translate Ayn Rand into other languages?
<Dr_Brook> As far as I know, there has
always been a strong interest in Ayn Rand in India. I have no
evidence to suggest that it is growing.
There is a continuous flow of new translations of Ayn
Rand's work into a variety of languages. However, the fact is that
most of these translations do not sell well. And it is very hard
for us to assess whether they have any impact in their targeted
countries. The Institute does not make any substantial efforts to
promote Objectivism outside of the United States, for reasons that
I mentioned earlier, primarily because of lack of resources.
There is so much that can be done and still needs to
be done in the United States before we can divert resources
elsewhere. The Institute's budget today is about 4.5 million
dollars. While this is a substantial increase over what it was 10
and 20 years ago (when the budget was about 250,000 dollars), it is
still relatively miniscule given the enormity of our mission. With
additional resources, both financial and human, much more could be
done.
<rgarmong> If I could ask one more
"movement" question: could you talk about the 20/20 plan, and how
much progress we've made toward meeting its goals?
<Dr_Brook> I would rather not go into
the specifics yet, but the plan is to help graduate students get
placed in top-level philosophy departments around the country. The
program is still in its infancy. It is very ambitious, and we will
not know its level of success for many years.
<SteveG> If you don't mind, I have two
questions. I've seen that there is an internship [program] at ARI.
Does that have any connection to the OAC? Secondly, being a student
of philosophy and classical studies at an undergraduate
institution, I often encounter hostility and irrationality toward
some of Objectivism's ideas. What would you say is your primary
motivation for doing what you do with ARI, as opposed to some other
endeavor? Thank you.
<Dr_Ghate> The internship program is a
small part of the OAC. We invite applications from dedicated
students in Objectivism to come to the Institute, usually during
the summer. The program involves both clerical/administrative work
and intellectual work. The intellectual work includes furthering
their understanding of Objectivism, and also sometimes helping us
with our various projects. We have another internship that is aimed
more at someone who is just discovering Objectivism and wants to
find out what the philosophy is all about.
The motivation for an intellectual career is
basically that you take ideas seriously and want to see that true
ideas win out in the culture. It's true, given today's culture,
that an advocate of rational ideas, and especially an advocate of
Objectivism, will face serious opposition. But that doesn't change
the fact that if you want to live in a rational culture, it will
take effort to do so.
But your motivation in pursuing an intellectual
career should be selfish. So it should be that ideas really
interest you, and that this kind of career-which may involve
teaching, and/or writing, and/or other forms of intellectual
activism-is an attractive career to you.
<SteveG> Thank you.
<Galois> In his essay "The
Analytic-Synthetic Dichotomy," Dr. Peikoff says that the meaning of
a word is all the characteristics of the word's referent. How
does his referential theory of meaning respond to the following
claim? Some words have no reference, such as "Pegasus" or
"behalf", yet they are perfectly meaningful.
<Dr_Brook> While this is obviously a
philosophical question, there is no way in a forum like this to
provide a meaningful response. These are the kinds of issues we
deal with in classes at the OAC.
<JRoberts> When deemed a good move to
make (meaning a potential is seen for a person to overcome
dogmatism), do you have any advice on how to respond to a person
who dogmatically follows Objectivism?
<Dr_Brook> It is obviously a mistake to
follow any set of ideas dogmatically. Just because Objectivism
happens to be true does not change this.
<Dr_Ghate> The paramount thing that you
have to convey to such a person is that Objectivism is a philosophy
of reason and independence, so it means that you have to think for
yourself and see the evidence that makes its ideas true, before you
follow them. It's likely that such a person comes from a religious
background, and that's his only conception of what a philosophy can
be.
<SteveG> I noticed recently that the
company BB&T granted $1 million to the University of South
Carolina for the study of capitalism, including the ideas of Ayn
Rand. Have there been any efforts to target major businessmen, such
as Bill Gates and Donald Trump, with Ayn Rand's ideas?
<Dr_Brook> Yes. There are continuous
efforts to find and cultivate relationships with the leading
businessmen of our time. Unfortunately, most businessmen do not
share our understanding of the importance of ideas and, therefore,
tend to be pragmatists. While we have had much success with some
businessmen, we are hopeful that, in the future, a new generation
of businessmen, who might have been exposed to Ayn Rand's ideas in
high school, will be more sympathetic to her ideas, and to the
Institute's mission.
<SteveG> Thank you.
<Enemy_> I'd like to get other people
(non-Objectivists) interested in learning about Objectivism. In
general, what do you think is a good way to introduce the
philosophy to them and promote interest in it?
<Dr_Ghate> I don't think there's any
better way than to give them a copy of Ayn Rand's fiction. You'll
have to judge whether the person is likely more receptive to
The
Fountainhead or
Atlas Shrugged. In rare cases, a person
may respond more immediately to the non-fiction works. So, good
things to give them here are
Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal,
The Virtue of Selfishness, or
Philosophy: Who Needs
It. But again, you can tailor this to the person's specific
interests.
<missing> Dr. Brook, you mentioned
high school students. In my short experience, high schools
are overwhelmingly in opposition to Objectivists' ideas.
Aside from Ayn Rand's books and methods, what do you suggest, in
terms of learning resources for a high school student, to combat
irrational ideas?
<Dr_Brook> I would recommend trying to
find books that present a rational view of specific issues in the
world around us. Such books do exist, but, granted, are hard to
find. I would also recommend making oneself familiar, during these
high school years, with the great literature of the past, which,
unfortunately, is not being taught in high schools.
<missing> Thank you.
<Dr_Brook> One additional thing is:
always try to focus on the facts, and monitor what you're being
told by your teachers, given the hostility, not only to
Objectivism, but to reality, in many high schools. You must
continuously make an effort to find the facts.
<Organichu> Aside from the obvious
approach, rational thinking, is there a specific piece of material
that you would suggest for an aspiring Objectivist to "push him
over the line", so to say? Perhaps a book or audio tape that you
find to be one of the most powerful? I ask this primarily for
teenagers who may wish for a catalyst, and, already having a basic
idea of Objectivism, would like to start on the path to a serious
Objectivist lifestyle.
<Dr_Brook> There is no such thing.
Committing oneself to a life guided by reason is not something that
can be motivated from without. Inspirational tapes or public
speakers cannot produce a long-term commitment to reason. If, after
reading
Atlas Shrugged, one is inspired to take Objectivism
seriously, their motivation to act on this inspiration must come
from within.
<Organichu> Alright, thank you.
<HaudRex> What exciting new things are
happening in the study of Objectivism? I hear that Peikoff has an
upcoming book on integration. What are your thoughts on this work,
and in what other applications or innovations is ARI involved?
<Dr_Ghate> Before commenting on Dr.
Peikoff's course and book, let me just say that my view is this:
what is needed to change the culture is not new innovations in
philosophy. What is needed is to make Ayn Rand's philosophy known
to rational minds.
Having said that, there is new work being done in
philosophy by Objectivist intellectuals. And paramount among these
is Dr. Peikoff's new work on induction and integration. He is
currently giving a course through the Institute on a new hypothesis
of his in the field of epistemology. He is working on two books.
One of these books deals with induction in philosophy and physics,
and he's co-writing that with David Harriman. Dr. Peikoff is also
working on his own book on integration in philosophy and the
culture.
<HaudRex> Thank you.
<Dr_Brook> Thank you for this
opportunity to answer your questions. I look forward to doing this
again sometime in the future. Good night.
<Bearster> Good night and thank you, Dr.
Brook.
<Dr_Ghate> I will stay for another five
minutes. Next question.
<Galois> Ayn Rand indicated that
she was interested in the development of her theory of mathematical
concepts to cover higher mathematics. I am a mathematician
who began writing a rationally organized textbook for physics
students, and in that effort I found that I could develop her
theory to address the usage of infinitesimals in calculus, Cantor's
theorem about higher infinities, and so forth. What would be the
appropriate way to bring the Ayn Rand Institute's attention to
these ideas?
<Dr_Ghate> Normally, we do not accept
unsolicited manuscripts and philosophical essays, basically,
because we don't have the manpower to go through the many
submissions that we get.
<Galois> Hence my inquiry.
<Ent1> I'd like to give a suggestion for
the ARI: There were many questions that we wanted to ask but
couldn't. Can the ARI set up a method where the public can ask
questions via email, and they will be answered on their website?
Like a running forum. The benefit of this is that over time it can
coalesce into a FAQ.
<Dr_Ghate> We are always taking
questions from the public, from students who are interested in the
OAC, etc. On our Web site, you can find the appropriate email
addresses to which to send your question. For instance, for OAC
questions, the email address is study@aynrand.org. But please be
aware that for general inquiries, especially on philosophical
topics, you're not guaranteed to get a response. We get many
questions sent to ARI and cannot possibly respond to them all.
<Ent1> I understand, but my question is
more to the setting up of a site with the answers to other's
questions. [There was no time for a response to this follow-up
comment.]
<Dr_Ghate> Thank you for attending this
session and for your questions. We hope to do this again sometime
in the future. I invite all interested students to submit an
application to the OAC (www.aynrand.org/academic). Thank you. Good
night.
<Bearster> Thank you, Dr. Ghate, for
coming and good night.
<Ent1> Yes, thanks.
<GreedyCap> Yes, thank you very much. I
look forward to doing this again!
[Transcript ends.]
This transcript was prepared by The Ayn
Rand
(R) Institute.
Copyright (C) 2004 The Ayn
Rand Institute
Reproduction of this transcript in any form without permission
is prohibited.